Restaurateur Tries To Censor Yelp Review: EPIC FAIL
May 20, 2008 8:34 am Social MediaWhile checking my twitter feed, I noticed an update by a friend* that really concerned me. She had received an angry call from Derek Onstott, Beso Mexican Grill & Cantina’s owner, about an unfavorable Yelp review she authored. According to this Yelp user, her review discussed everything she witnessed and heard in the restaurant. During her visit, Onstott disclosed to her that he funded his establishment using money obtained from illegal activities. An even worse observance was when a police officer came to the restaurant to serve Onslott with a warrant. The Yelp User also mentioned the sub par service and food in her review. After a quick search, it was evident that this isn’t the first time Onslott and Beso have received negative reviews.
Once Onstott discovered the review, he contacted the Yelper. He threatened to harm her and file a lawsuit if she did not immediately remove her review. She removed her initial review and replaced it with the following:
1 star rating
I am re-writing this b/c i had a post about this place, then the owner called going off on me b/c he was pissed at the review I gave him. Someone obviously saw this and told the owner. But remember this is a social site/forum.
I am giving you opinions on what I experienced. Food - so so, same with drinks. Owner should trust his staff to help out and not do all the work. I would suggest a little bit more positive feedback towards the staff, and they would want to do a better job instead of walking on pins and needles all day. In short badly run place…. There are a lot of details I will leave out.
She had to remove this review as well due to an angry voice mail (transcribed below) Onstott left her. She has notified Yelp of the threats.
Onstott does not appear to be familiar with the concept of user-generated content. Social media encourages users to share their experiences online. Based on his verbal threats, Onstott doesn’t realize that his attempt to censor this Yelp user has prompted a conversation online that will only prove to be detrimental to his business. Reputation management isn’t coercing patrons to change their opinion; it is implementing the recommendations that they offered. It is thanking the users for sharing their opinion and letting them know they will at least be taken into consideration. Above all, this owner needs a lesson in the basics of customer service.
My initial reaction was to tweet this occurrence with fellow users. Needless to say, they were outraged by Onstott’s behavior. Idofluk created a poll based on this situation and asked the Twitter community what this Yelper should do. The options were: Ignore the owner, contact yelp to complain, write a worse review, erase her initial review, and other. Within a few hours of the poll being posted on pollsb.com, there were 219 views and 53 votes.
The Twitter community also provided me with their own questions for my friend. Below are those questions and her answers.
How did the owner find your phone number, etc? Did you record any calls or will you record any future calls to/from this owner? Asked by: MixMastaKooz
Derek and I share mutual friends, so he was able to obtain my phone number through one of them. I did not record any of the calls, but I saved on of the voice mails he left me. Apparently, he didn’t discover the Yelp review himself. A friend mentioned it to him and linked him to my review. Here is the transcribed version of the voice mail he left me:
“Hi Rebecca this is Derek. I am calling in one last attempt to have you remove your review, and I spoke to my attorney about the first review you posted. I printed it out. That is defamation of character my attorney and will slap a lawsuit on you if the review is not gone in 24hrs. You never dined here. You don’t have receipt from here. You drank here, no service, no food… I will sue you. Your review has nothing to do with my restaurant… Trust me I will spend $10k in lawyers to win a $100k from you. I will drag your name through the mud, I fucking mean it. I will drag your fucking name through the mud. This is my livelihood. You drag my name through the mud I will drag yours. And mess up your life and job. ”
I did dine at his restaurant. He invited me to his restaurant as a guest. He gave me food and drinks. So he is correct - I don’t have a receipt.
Given this situation, do you feel you will become reluctant when leaving any future online reviews? Asked by Sonnygill
No, I believe it is important to share my opinion and experiences. People use review sites to determine which businesses to patronize. Reviews help people make final decisions on where to go and what to buy. These sites empower people and enable them to make well-thought out decisions.
Will this experience keep you from writing any more honest reviews online or will you continue to voice your opinion? Asked by shaxxon
All my reviews have been completely honest, may they be positive or negative. Although this is the first time I have had experienced such a horrible experience, it will not hinder me from being honest.
Do you think this is related to the medium (UGC) or would this guy have reacted similarly if the review wasn’t online? Asked by melaniephung
A jerk is a jerk is a jerk. This man would have behaved the same way regardless of the medium. He has been involved in many legal problems in the past. His reputation is already very poor in the St. Louis area. If he had contacted me as a concerned business owner, I would have reacted differently.
Given the transparency of social networks, do you wish you had been more anonymous in your profile on elp? Sonnygill and BarbaraKB
My profile didn’t contain any personal information, besides my first name and city. In fact, my avatar is my cat. It isn’t even a personal picture.
Does this discourage you from continuing participation in social media? Asked by martinbowling
No. In fact, I tweeted my frustration right afterwards and agreed to let Reem blog about this.
I’m interested in knowing what the police can do (if anything) in this country (being from AU). What did they recommend to her? Asked by MadLid
I contacted an officer right after the first phone call. I explained what Yelp was, what happened and who threatened me. The officer was surprised and documented all the information I shared with her. Within two days, I received a call from a local detective. He told me I had two options - report it or leave it alone. He mentioned that if I reported it, I would have to deal with the legal system and go to court. Since I wasn’t interested in going that route, I decided to just step back and leave everything alone. Then, Derek called me a few days after I posted my revised review and left me a horrible voice mail. I contacted the detective again who suggested I remove the review and stop all interaction with him.
This restaurateur was attempting to control his image, and apparently thought threatening a reviewer was the best way to do so. He must not have expected her to share her story on Twitter and receive the support of the online community. The number of people who are now aware of Onstott’s indiscretions has increased significantly. I wonder if he’ll try to call each one of us and dole out individual threats. Many people who aren’t familiar with the social media space don’t realize the power that users have to spread a message to countless others. He didn’t censor her, he empowered her with knowledge. Not only are journalists covering his apparently crazy behavior in local newspapers, now bloggers and twitterers are discussing it online as well. Derek Onstott — Epic Fail!
* My friend wants to remain anonymous at this time.
** Thanks to the Twitter community for their concern and providing me with great questions to ask the Yelp user.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:48 am
We are increasingly living in a world were such coercive practices will harm any business. The more one tries to conceal and censor the more the word will come out..With the Internet, transparency is king.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:50 am
What an eye opener! I was walking down Washington the other day and wondered if that place was any good. I’ll be sure to avoid it like the plague and let everyone I know how the owner threatened and attempted to scare someone who wrote a negative review about the place. What a bum!!
May 20th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Glad to see your friend was willing to disclose the restaurant and owner. Ridiculous with the threat he threw at her because of an honest review. He’s going to face a hard reality if he doesn’t understand the meaning of UGC.
There can easily be a backlash on him and his restaurant if he keeps trying to control something that’s uncontrollable…but in the end, it sounds like he doesn’t have high morals as is, which will hurt his name/business on his own.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:58 am
[...] Original post by SOCIAL IMPRESSIONS [...]
May 20th, 2008 at 9:04 am
“He invited me to his restaurant as a guest. He gave me food and drinks.”
And then you took the time to go online and give his place a negative review? That’s a jerk move for sure.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Seriously, people are still oblivious to the word of mouth effect. Being concerned about defamation of character is one thing, but facts is facts. If the reviewer said they had a bad experience, the owner they should be concerned that the reviewer will tell everyone they can. In the past that was all of the people you knew, but the democratizing power of the internet means that now you can tell every human on earth! Epic fail indeed. It will be interesting to see if it’s even possible for Mr. Onstott to climb out of this hole.
I would love to see the flash mob mechanism utilized for this type of stuff - a small vocal contingent of spontaneously appearing protesters would make a huge statement, not only about the service and the subsequent threats, but also the power of crowd sourcing.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:31 am
@ Joel - I feel I need to clarify what you read. The owner claimed that I never dined or drank in his restaurant through his threats to me (see voice-mail transcript). In matter of fact I did eat and drink at his establishment. However, the main reason I was yelping b/c he was threatening to fire his staff in front of customers, the cops called in etc… I feel it is important to disclose on Yelp about the Atmosphere so people know what experience I had. I spoke about the so-so food b/c it was also as relevant.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:34 am
She should never back down from this. A review is a review. Guess what dude call that constructive criticism. Apparently this guy needs reviews like this to get his place where it SHOULD be.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:45 am
@joel
Thanks for your comment, but this jerk was :
1- A dumbass for sharing with the Yelp user that he funded his restaurant with drug money
2- Allowing sub par food to be served to customers
3- A major bully for pushing that girl around
4- At a disadvantage for not understanding that social media can’t be CENSORED
That girl did her job by reviewing that restaurant on Yelp.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:21 am
@Joel:
It happens all the time. Read the food pages of the N.Y.T. or any major newspaper.
Restaurants invite people to their place to review them. Sometimes they do not impress the food critic. If that is a case, a person invited to the place gives a negative review and it is not considered a jerk move by anyone except a jerk.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I might be the only other person, but I was also interested in the fact that the owner invited your friend to the restaurant and she later posted a negative review on Yelp. I think she had every right to do so, and he never should have come after her the way he did. But I’m left with questions - what was their prior relationship (if any), and did she discuss her opinions with him before posting?
If they were acquainted, I would think she’d have spoken to him directly.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Wow.
Sad to hear that the police cannot do anything. Shouldn’t threats be taken more seriously by law enforcement?
Cough up or back off seems be to such a woeful response; is it any wonder situations get so out of control…
May 20th, 2008 at 10:49 am
This is where you lob an email phone call back at the person with a message that you have retained (insert some partner in the best law firm in town) as counsel, please be aware that when you loose you will be paying his bill. Oh yes he bills at $750/hour.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:56 am
I have been both a waiter and a restaurant critic for a small Newspaper in Los Angels. Ironically as a waiter I have experienced being screamed at by a manager in front of a full restaurant because I accidentally put the wrong check on a table. I stayed calm and gave him my 2 weeks notice that day.
As a Restaurant critic I also received a call from a manager that I gave a bad review too. It was very creepy as I didn’t not have a mutual friend as in this story. At first I was surprised that as a guest of the owner you would give him such a bad review. But when you explained in a comment how abusive his behavior was I understand.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:03 am
What a great example of how the social response works, and how quickly.
Was she actually invited there to do a review of the restaurant or was that an after thought?
You would think if he invited her there he would have been bending over backwards to make sure the experience was a pleasant one.
Also, apparently this guy isn’t familiar with the phrase “loose lips sink ships.”
Something tells me he’s not far from a front page article in the local news.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:21 am
@Terah and @pmctosh -
I was at brunch that morning with friends, and they invited this “wonderful” person to brunch. I had not met the owner prior to this. He invited me to the restaurant b/c I was heading to a baseball game that evening (and his restaurant is downtown near the stadium). And he kept “bragging” how wonderful the place was, and it was the best mexican food in town. I am not a food critic (but I do LOVE FOOD). I sat at the bar for 3 hours (no joke) witnessing all this unravel. (I do realize, I wasted time). It was not till a few days later, I decided to Yelp it. I strong believer, treat people how you want to be treated. Not the case here. So I voiced my opinion.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:23 am
[...] in point - this article about how Beso’s owner threatens a gal after a horrible Yelp review that our very own Baby Momma of Content Miss Melanie called out on the Twitter. Basically, this [...]
May 20th, 2008 at 11:34 am
ok. i’m sure the reviewer had good reasons for what she did BUT — there’s just no way i’d ever, ever do that. i do not think that publicly making accusations against someone, calling them a drug dealer is necessarily in my own self-interest, no matter what free speech rights cover me in doing so. if i think the illegal activity is an imminent threat to the community i might consider going to the police with that information, but as to taking matters into my own hands and attempting to fight crime on a restaurant review site? no, that doesn’t seem safe or prudent.
and the fact that these people knew each other prior to that, to the extent an invitation for free dinner and drinks was issued, makes me wonder. if it was for a restaurant review that is one thing, but it doesn’t sound like that is the case.
i’m sorry, but i think there is more to this than meets the eye. i do not deny that the restaurant owner behaved shockingly in response, but i just have to wonder the real motives behind a review of a free meal and drinks, that also makes serious accusations of criminal activity. it almost seems there are personal issues beyond the simple exercise of free speech by the reviewer.
i could be wrong and i mean no offense to the reviewer, and am not defending the restaurant owner for those threatening accusations BUT — i just have to wonder what the backstory is, that’s all.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:35 am
by the way sorry for the long comment - it’s just that it kind of hit a nerve. and that is a long story right there
May 20th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I have to say that I agree with Dot Lizard about the drug dealer accusations. They do seem a bit slanderous and reminiscent of Church of Scientology. I also wondered if there may be more to this story as well.
As far as online critics go this is both a good and bad thing. The bad is that anyone with a grudge can try to hurt someones business. The good part is it can give people a voice who might not normally have one.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:52 am
@dotlizard
Don’t ever apologize for writing a long comment! I love feedback (no matter the length) and I am sure others do as well.
Perhaps if you read her comment #15, it might bring perspective to the situation. She wasn’t friends with the restaurant owner. He also disclosed to her about how he illegally funded his establishment. If he didn’t want that information to be shared, he shouldn’t have said anything to a person he barely knew. That’s pure common sense, right?
May 20th, 2008 at 11:56 am
@dotlizard
I completely understand your thoughts. However, with this there was no motive. Especially, since I get not stop phone calls with him and this situation has put a kink into my life… For clarification, I never called him a drug dealer that was on some yahoo post. He told me he opened it using illegal “sources”. Very general from him.
In addition, I did not know the person prior to the lunch. Trust me this is someone I would not be associated with, It was a brunch with friends, and this individual showed up. He invited me down to the restaurant to see how spectacular it was and how wonderful the food was. I am curious person in nature… He was letting me sample stuff. Hence , why i was able to review the food and drinks. I also as an “observer” able to see how the staff was and how the owner treated his staff along with the police coming in with a warrant.
I have no “motives” and the fact that I got to sample some of the food and drinks, okay fine. But I did asked if I could pay for it and he said no.
I have no agenda on this. After, the restaurant I told a friend and said I should Yelp my experience. I am all about supporting local businesses… Not shady ones… I stated the facts, documented it through police reports, etc… And based on prior review of this “individual” what I had to say was not off par…
May 20th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Sorry one more thought. The reason I tweeted about this from the beginning was for the fact that the owner was threatening me for my life. Over 1 review on Yelp. In the original post there was no grudge, just simply stating what was done, said and observed.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
thanks. one of the problems with long comments is that comments (like #15) get posted while you are composing them.
still. common sense would suggest to me that if someone i’d just met told me they were dealing drugs to support their restaurant, i’d have some reason to fear them. i’ll admit i’ve known a few people who sold the odd bag of weed here & there in my life but no one who could support a restaurant on their drug money. i would consider someone that successful in a criminal endeavor to be dangerous, to have dangerous associates, and most likely to have weapons. therefore, in my own self-interest, i would refrain from angering this person, and very carefully enlist the help of the authorities if i felt they were endangering my community.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2008-03-05/news/red-goes-dark-as-co-owners-battle-over-the-wash-avenue-restaurant/
May 20th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
http://www.rftstl.com/2008-03-05/news/red-goes-dark-as-co-owners-battle-over-the-wash-avenue-restaurant/
May 20th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
As social networking within a community grows the exchange of information takes on a higher level of legitimacy. As a web marketer, the obvious lessoned learned is that social media is a powerful tool. If I were a restaurant owner I would want to invite members of the SN community to review my restaurant. Image the penetration I would get for little or no advertising budget—a few free meals is my only expense. You couldn’t ask for a better opportunity to generate word-of-mouth, or in this case blog-to-consumer, advertising.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Man, I’ve posted some really bad reviews on yelp and never gave it a second thought. I hope my life doesn’t get threatened someday.
I’m REALLY disappointed by how the police reacted. WTH are they getting paid for, anyway? They tell the woman to go home and not worry about it, then the next day if something happens to her they’re like “oopse.” Ug.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
[...] so in this case. You can read the full details over here, but the summary about should give you a pretty good picture. Derek Onstott is an absolute jerk, [...]
May 20th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
The internet really needs a few more good lawyers. The rest of the business world already has them, and if publishers and social media participants are going to get a fair shake in court, we need internet experts who will do the issue and precedents justice in the courtroom.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
The social media space will change the level of customer service patrons receive. Which I am all for- poor customer service is a huge pet peeve of mine. Good for you Yelper for agreeing to this interview, and good for you Reem for writing about it!
May 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
that restauranteer is a serious jerk. if possible, i would go to his restaurant and drop my finger nail clippings in all of his appetizers. great article. lovely, indeed.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:42 am
[...] From Reem Abeidoh’s blog: [...]
May 21st, 2008 at 8:44 am
This reminds me of a similar experience I had but ultimately decided just to let it go in the end.
The reality is that as technology allows us to be so much more conversational and open about experiences and opinions - immediately - it’s really difficult to not embrace it.
What surprises me more is that this person (the other “Derek”) clearly is familiar with these applications (I am reading that correctly yes?) - so you would have hoped this person would have been more constructive in the first place (key word is “hoped”).
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:50 am
[...] try Beso’a Mexican Cantina and Grill because you have to see what all of this is [...]
May 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
[...] read more | digg story [...]
May 26th, 2008 at 3:08 am
[...] read more | digg story [...]
May 27th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
As a St. Louis and downtown resident I think this is ridiculous. I had planned on visiting the restaurant (meant to visit it as RED), but will not and will be more than happy to share this story with all of my friends. Hopefully they will just go out of business as the city does not need these types of businesses.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Better to take the high road and accept that criticism is usually constructive. Thanks for the detailed case study, Reem.
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 am
[...] of mine that I’ve gotten to know more in the past few weeks, Reem Abeidoh, had published a great interview, that morning, with a Yelp reviewer who was threatened by a restaurant owner. For whatever reason, [...]
June 6th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
[...] used was “Derek Onstott.” I decided to search for the keywords on Google to see if my post was visible in the results page. My blog was number 7 on Google for that keyword. I glance at the [...]
June 13th, 2008 at 6:50 am
The situation you described was far more extreme but I too had a business owner who was trying to disparage me for my negative Yelp review. He made himself look bad when he “reviewed” himself as a response to both mine and someone else’s poor exeperiences.
Businesses need to understand that they do NOT have control over what people say, but they can control how they react. With such a global communication system it’s crucial that business owners are very very thoughtful in their responses to prevent even further erosion of their brand.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:53 am
I have heard of a number of cases like these against website such as http://www.insiderpages.com and http://www.reviewpage.com concerning upset businesses that want reviews removed. In my opinion, I feel that if the businesses didn’t want the negative reviews, they should have offered a better service!
August 6th, 2008 at 12:06 am
We’ve had some real bad experiences with the company Yelp:
Here is some more information regarding the Yelp / Razzberry Lips story:
*Yelp’s sales reps use negative postings as a “lead source” to call the owner and attempt to sell Business Owner Accounts. * I received a phone call from a sales rep named Summer who stated that negative reviews could be moved to the bottom of the page and possibly removed in the future if I purchased a Business Owner Account. * The hypocrisy of the Yelp founders Jeremy Stoppelman and Russel Simmons is legendary , and is further amplified by their removal of my negative “review” of Yelp on their own website. So much for , “The voice of the people” or “Real People. Real Reviews” * Yelp hires paid “Yelpers” $15 / dollars an hour to write reviews because their business model is not succeeding. The ads for paid Yelpers can be found on Craigslist in every metro area in the U.S. You could call this, ” Paid People . Fake Reviews”. * On Friday July 4th , 2008 , the SF Chronicle ran an article about how Yelp removes establishments from Yelp if they complain or expose the Yelp hypocrisy publicly. * It is a known fact that Yelp is losing money at a burn rate that could put them out of business by next year. There is another popular website which has a “dead pool” in which the overwhelming number of readers select Yelp to go out of business within a year. They are desperate and are not performing a level public service as they represent. * They allow any unfounded accusation to remain on their site , no matter how inaccurate , without any regard for validation. * I attempted several times to contact the founders Jeremy Stoppelman and Russel Simmons regarding the situation described in the Mike Cassidy article. As cowards will do , they hid behind their desks. * My wife’s business will continue to thrive for many more successful years and will outlast Yelp as they circle the drain throwing money at paid Yelpers and salespeople.
* Yelp claims to have 10,000 viewers each month ? Right there that should tell you that Yelp spokesperson Stephanie Ichinose and Jeremy Stoppleman are liers and stretch the numbers* What they don’t tell you is that more than 2/3’s of these are repeat viewers. So they really have 3 million unique users/viewers . Also 1/2 of these are in the SF Bay Area…which is why they are frantically hiring “Paid Yelpers” from Craigslist ads in the rest of the U.S.
August 12th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
The official Yelp policy is that businesses who have purchased a Business Owner Account are allowed to remove one review of their choice for every 6 consecutive months of Business Owner Account membership.
August 15th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
[...] post here from St. Louis blogger Reem Abeidoh that has sparked a terrific online discussion about a reader’s restaurant review [...]